Nuka crocks...

[dkistner]

I'm reading in Wild Fermentation how to start a Japanese nuka pickle
crock, and I want to do it. They recommend using either beer or sake in
the recipe. I'm wondering if any of you have done a nuka crock and, if
so, what you would recommend in terms of the beer or sake (or mead?) if
I use rice bran...and would you use anything different for a
wheat-bran-based nuka crock?

Diane

[Dick Adams]

Post by dkistner
I'm reading in Wild Fermentation how to start a Japanese nuka pickle
crock, and I want to do it. They recommend using either beer or sake in
the recipe. I'm wondering if any of you have done a nuka crock and, if
so, what you would recommend in terms of the beer or sake (or mead?) if
I use rice bran...and would you use anything different for a
wheat-bran-based nuka crock?

I give!! What is a Japanese nuka pickle crock?

[l***@gmail.com]

Diane,

I've never heard of nuka pickles by that name. Do they serve them as
bar food in sake joints? If so, then I believe I've eaten them, even
if I didn't know what they were called.

What kind of sake and/or beer was recommended? When you say sake, do
you mean the sweet or dry types? Because when you talk about beer, I
tend to think of something relatively sweet. Depending upon what you
need (sweet or dry, or something in between), you can almost certainly
make a mead to fill the bill.

-David

[dkistner]

Okay, finally I'm able to answer this. Our power's been really going on
and off a lot over the past few days. David, here's a link describing
the different kinds of pickles, so I'm not sure which is the kind you
had: http://www.kikkoman.com/forum/008/ff008.html. Intriguing
descriptions, aren't they? Makes me want to make all kinds of Japanese
pickles.

Dick, in my Wild Fermentation book, there is a recipe called Japanese
Nuka Bran Pickles, with an adaptation using wheat bran if you can't
find rice bran. Here's how the author describes them: "Nuka pickles are
a traditional Japanese ferment, where vegetables are packed in a crock
filled with absorbent rice bran mixed with salt, water, seaweed,
ginger, miso, and sometimes beer or wine. In this rich medium, whole
vegetables can be pickled in just days, or continue to ferment for long
periods." I get the impression that the flavors are continually
changing because whatever is put in the crock alters the flavor
slightly, so that's kind of appealing to me.

Supposedly, once you get the nuka crock off to a good start (there are
almost two pages of instructions how), you can continue to feed it and
use it indefinitely for making sharp/sour pickles out of just about any
vegetable, so I want to have one going when I start getting harvest out
of my garden. I was really intrigued by the method and some of the
descriptions: "Takuwan pickles are daikon radishes fermented in nuka
for as long as three years."

I'm going to try using a water crock I've had lying around for my nuka
crock. I'm hoping it'll work okay.

I highly recommend Wild Fermentation by Sandor Katz, by the way. There
are all kinds of interesting food and beverage ferments in it,
including meads. I really like this guy's attitude: "There is a
mystique surrounding fermented foods that many people find
intimidating.... My advice is to reject the cult of expertise. Do not
be afraid. Do not allow yourself to be intimidated. Remember that all
fermentation processes predate the technology that has made it possible
for them to be made more complicated.... Fermentation is easy and
exciting. Anyone can do it." That was exactly what I needed to
read/hear.

Diane

[l***@gmail.com]

Diane,

The nuka crock sounds fascinating! What type of mead were you thinking
of trying out with it? Thanks for the tsukemono link, BTW. Without
pictures, I'm afraid I wouldn't know what I ate at the sake bar. All I
remember was that it was REALLY good!

On a related note, has anyone done any work with mead vinegars?

-David

[dkistner]

Post by l***@gmail.com
The nuka crock sounds fascinating! What type of mead were you

thinking

Post by l***@gmail.com
of trying out with it?

David, I started a crock using a Samuel Adams beer (what my SO brought
home when I said "Get a good beer so I can use one in my nuka crock").
I've got 7 gallons of very young meads in bulk that I just tasted
yesterday; they need more time, but they're tasting a whole lot better
than they did. But I was too impatient to wait to start this crock with
one of them. (I'm assuming it would be better to use a well-aged mead
for this purpose, but maybe I'm wrong.)

I used wheat bran. I've got to get some root vegetables from the store,
because all I had was some onion and garlic from my garden. But so far,
so good.

I have learned what I realize all of you old-timers have learned so
well: The cure for impatience is to start another ferment going! I'm
getting more adventurous, too, following Sandor Katz' advice, and just
trying things. Instead of being all left-brained hypercritical of what
I'm doing, and dreading "contamination" by wild yeasts, I'm trying to
get more relaxed and intuitive with it. God only knows what will come
of it, but it's a better way for me to learn than obsessing over
technology/technique.

Yesterday I got a new stove (a major event), so I wanted to start a
"New Stove Wine." (I didn't have any honey, so I can't call it mead.) I
threw some sugar, water, chamomile tea, a little French Vanilla tea, a
banana, some grated ginger, and some pectic enzyme into a 4L carboy
(washed well but not even sanitized), then pitched EC-1118. No recipe,
no measurements to speak of...I just thought "I'm gonna see what
happens!" This morning it's chugging and smells divine. Even if it
turns out awful, it sure was fun!

Diane

[l***@gmail.com]

Diane,

Good luck with your New Stove Wine! Have you used EC-1118 before? I
understand it's an agressive fermenter, and will leave you with a dry
wine. It also has a high alcohol tollerance, so you may end up with a
kick-butt concoction on your hands. If you want it sweeter, you'll
probably have to add it in later. Be sure to stabilize (potassium
sorbate, or pasteurization), or else you could have sparkling wine (not
a bad thing), or bottle bombs (a BAD thing) on your hands. Keep us
posted on the nuka crock project!

-David

[dkistner]

Thanks for the tips, David. Yes, I've used EC-1118 before. I like the
way it handles. I don't have a lot of experience with different yeasts,
but I used Montrachet once (and it didn't even start) and the Premiere
Cuvee (my first, and I wound up with big chunks of stuff in my
must...not sure if due to the yeast strain or something I did wrong but
I had to throw it all out).

Because I have Candidiasis, I'm also going to try using S. boulardii
capsules (I got from the Vitamin Bin) for some ferments because it's
supposed to be a yeast that kills Candida albicans. I know it's
technically a bread yeast, but I want to see what happens if I use it.

[Dick Adams]

Post by dkistner
I'm reading in Wild Fermentation how to start a Japanese nuka pickle
crock, and I want to do it. They recommend using either beer or sake in
the recipe. I'm wondering if any of you have done a nuka crock and, if
so, what you would recommend in terms of the beer or sake (or mead?) if
I use rice bran...and would you use anything different for a
wheat-bran-based nuka crock?

I went looking for information on nuka crocks, Take a look at
http://olen.eng.ohio-state.edu/J_FOODS/tsuke_ri.html for a complete
explanation of materials needed


http://ytoshi.cool.ne.jp/best_friends32/study/cl/food/pickles/pickles1.htm
Nukazuke
Make "nukadoko" (pickling bed) by mixing "nuka"(rice bran) , salt
and water. Then add them dried kelp and dried chilies to increase
the flavor. Vegetables are buried in "nukadoko" and are kept
there for varying lengths of time. You can eat it a couple of days
later but the best "nukazuke" is the one which are buried for
several months. The best-known examples are takuan (pickled
Japanese radish) and kyuuri no nukazuke(pickled cucumber)

http://www.nyfoodmuseum.org/_pasia.htm#Japan
Nakazuke
In nukazuke pickling, vegetables are covered with nuka, or rice bran, salt
and dried chilies, for about three months. In many households, salt bran
is kept in a cask or jar on hand. The most popular kind of nukazuke is
takuan zuke, pickled daikon radish. Colored yellow with turmeric, the best
season for natazuke is winter when the water freezes on the surface of the
keg for keeping natazuke. Nukazuke have a pungent aroma, a tangy flavor,
and gather vitamins and minerals from the rice bran. Unlike salt pickles,
nukazuke only last for a few days once removed from the pickling medium,
so it's best to eat them right after they are washed.

http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/mdr/special_dishes.htm has a completely
different procedure - a pickle press

Dick

[dkistner]

Dick, what fantastic links! Thanks so much for posting them.

I just got back home from a visit with my sister in Atlanta, and I took
my sourdough starter and nuka crock with me. (They are like children;
you have to take care of them.) I haven't yet tried to eat anything out
of the nuka crock, because it's still a young crock, but it looks like
it's doing its thing rather well.

I'd left my first batch of Rejuvelac (google it) at home: sprouted
wheatberries left to ferment in water. According to the recipe, it said
"for two days" but I let it go for three. When I got home, it smelled
about like blue cheese. I don't know if that's good or not, but I
strained and refrigerated it and will swish-taste later today. If I
like the taste, and I think it's not spoiled, I may try making some
salad dressing with some of it, and I may try adding some honey to some
of it and restarting the fermentation to see what comes of it. I guess
it would be a braggot of some kind.

Diane

[n***@nowhere.edu.invalid]

Post by dkistner
I'd left my first batch of Rejuvelac (google it) at home: sprouted
wheatberries left to ferment in water. According to the recipe, it said
"for two days" but I let it go for three. When I got home, it smelled
about like blue cheese. I don't know if that's good or not, but I
strained and refrigerated it and will swish-taste later today. If I
like the taste, and I think it's not spoiled, I may try making some
salad dressing with some of it, and I may try adding some honey to some
of it and restarting the fermentation to see what comes of it. I guess
it would be a braggot of some kind.

I've lately become a breakfast sprout weirdo, and have been knocking around
the idea of fermenting them as well. Let us know how it turns out! Of course,
trying to make a wine out of mung beans would probably be wrong, but what
about say .. alfalfa honey and alfalfa sprouts? Both are rather light.

-- WB

[dkistner]

I've been really craving dry red wine, and drinking too much of it, and
wanting to get to the bottom of what it is my body is asking for that
it thinks might be in that wine (but clearly isn't, because it's cheap,
heavily sulfited CR wine, and I'm always pouring "just one more half
glass").

I tried a rather interesting experiment yesterday. I took one of my
partner's beers (guiltily, because he's almost out) and poured half of
it into an equal volume of Rejuvalac. (Since I got on this wine thing,
I have had a decided ambivalence toward beer, not loving the taste any
more like I used to.) Know what? This rejuvabeer tasted pretty good. I
mean, it's a taste I think I could really grow to love and it wouldn't
take long. Kind of sourish, but beerish and subtly carbonated. And it
mixed very well, as if the two were made to go together. The killer
surprise, though, was I went a long time not wanting anything else to
drink, and then I mixed the rest of the beer into the Rejuvalac again.
This was about 7 p.m., and I'm usually asleep not long after 9 p.m. At
close to 11 p.m. my son came in and told me he was trying to sleep, to
please turn the TV down. I don't think I've stayed up that late in ten
years. Hope it's not just a fluke.

I may take a tiny bit of my traditional mead and a little bit of my
cyster and try mixing measured amounts of this Rejuvalac into each to
see how it affects the taste. Perhaps that little bit of fresh sourish
taste mixed in with the sweetness would work amazingly well. If it
does, I may wind up with exactly what I wanted when I ventured into
mead-making: an alcoholic drink that is satisfying, healthy, and
healing.

We'll see, and I'll let y'all know.

Diane

[Joel]

(Since I got on this wine thing, I have had a decided ambivalence
toward beer, not loving the taste any more like I used to.)

Being a beer geek[*], I'm always curious when people say
things like that. Are you encompassing the full spectrum of
beer styles in your ambivalence? Dry stout, malty English ale,
hoppy IPA, crisp pilsner, full-bodied malty doppelbock, robust
roasty imperial stout, refreshingly sour Flander red ale,
funky tart blended lambic, spicy fruity Hefeweizen, delicately
fruity blonde ale.... or just bland mass-market lager?
Just curious.

[*] I enjoy wine, too, as well as mead (which I don't simply
consider a type of wine, but a glorious beverage unto itself),
and a select few types of distilled liquor.

P.S. What's Rejuvalac?

[dkistner]

Post by Joel

(Since I got on this wine thing, I have had a decided ambivalence
toward beer, not loving the taste any more like I used to.)

Being a beer geek[*], I'm always curious when people say
things like that.

Yes, I've tried lots of differents styles of beer, and I'm sure my
taste for it will return. I don't know what the deal is now, except I
know my body's gotten pretty screwed up. The last time I experienced
this reluctance with beer was when I was pregnant (decades ago). I got
over that, too! :)

Post by Joel
P.S. What's Rejuvalac?

Sprout three cups of wheatberries in a gallon jar, rinsing frequently
then inverting to drain (well above any water) until good little
"tails" form. Rinse again, then fill the jar with water. Cover with
cheesecloth or similar to keep out flies but allow air in and leave out
on the counter to catch the passing wild yeasts, which will cause it to
ferment; after two days, pour off the liquid, cap, and refrigerate.
This is Rejuvalac, which is supposed to be this fabulous health tonic.
All I can say is, I've only been drinking it for two days (about 8
ounces per) and I feel like half a million bucks. I'm also, so far, not
drinking like a fish, like I was before.

You wind up with lots of sprouted sour wheatberries. You can fill the
jar with water again for 24 hours, then toss the spent wheatberries;
but I wanted to use them for bread-baking. Maybe there's some way to
use them for beer or braggots, too.

Diane