Hmmm... I missed that the original poser was asking at what point honey
would precipitate out of a honey water solution. On second reading, I still
do not see it. But as I said, I was not sure I understood his question.
He spoke of sugar saturation in terms of percent and the resulting sugar
saturation if you mix honey and water and why it was important. He assumed
that honey is 15% water and I pointed out that this is not always true.
Honey can vary greatly in it's water content. I assumed that people would
know that if you dissolve honey into more water you would get a higher
saturation of water in the honey up to the point where it will ferment,
which is what is important to us, and even beyond. But there is no possible
solution level of honey into water that will cause honey to precipitate out.
You can dissolve 1 gal. of honey into a 1000 gallons of water and get a very
high percent water content -- but no honey will precipitate out. You can
dissolve 1 gal of honey into a drop of water and get a low percent
saturation of water -- but higher than the starting saturation but no honey
will precipitate out.
Now sugar can possibly precipitate out. After all, most of us have seen
sugar crystals in the honey. But once again, even sugar will be less likely
to precipitate out after you dissolve any amount of water in it.
No I do not agree that the word saturation implies the point at which
precipitation occurs and if I did agree, I would have to say it has no
meaning in this context as honey can never precipitate out of a honey water
solution and the possibility of sugar precipitating out would be lessoned
with any such solution.
And to Dick, I tried to answer your question of why sugar solution is
important in terms of wine making but I did not answer what the volume of
the must would be. When sugar is dissolved into water there will be a
little volume change. In other words, if you dissolved a quart of sugar in
a gallon of water you will not get 5 quarts of final solution. For one
thing there is air between the grains of sugar and another, water and sugar
molecules may adjust their arrangement to change the volume. But with
honey, the sugar is already dissolved in water (which is what honey is). So
when you dissolved honey in more water it will not change volume nearly as
much. If you mix 1 gallon of honey with 5 gallons of water you should get
very close to 6 gallons of must. (Assuming, to keep every one happy, both
were at the same temperature and kept at that temperature and of course the
atmospheric pressure does not change.) ;o)
Also, I may have sounded kind of flippant about the saturation of water
issue. I did not mean to. Different honeys may have very different water
saturations. This is not due to unscrupulous vendors watering the honey, is
just that different varieties have different saturations. I don't want to
pull numbers off the top of my head but it is enough to effect how much
honey you use to yield a given alcohol level. Consequently, you cannot
accurately use a calculation to determine how much honey to use. You must
measure the sugar content of the honey. It is far easier to measure the
sugar content of the final must with a hydrometer so I recommend you add as
much honey as you need to yield the saturation you need to get the alcohol
level you want. Calculations are not accurate enough without measuring. If
you want, you can calculate approximately what you need and then add a
little less than that to be safe. Check your hydrometer reading and then
add more honey to get the right reading. Of course you will not have
exactly a given volume but you will have the right saturation.
I will try to remember to look up some of the water saturations commonly
found in honey and give them in the next few days. Unless someone else does
it first.
Ray
Post by TridPost by Ray CalvertMaybe I am not understanding the question but, as far as wine or mead making
is concerned, I believe the point of "saturation of sugar" in water is the
amount of alcohol it will yield. Honey is not always 15% water. Some
honey may be 18% or higher and this honey will not keep well. Some might be
lower than 15% water. Consequently, the question is not how much volume of
must you will get if you mix a given amount of honey with a given amount of
water, but what will the resultant "saturation of sugar" be and will it give
you the alohol level you are targeting. I consider recipies that call for a
given amount of honey only guidlines. I set the honey required by the
Given the context of the word "saturation," 0in common usage, it means
as much solute (honey in this case) is dissolved in the solvent
(water) as can be without having any solute precipitating out. Any
less sugar/honey/whatever in your must, and it's not saturated.
"Saturated" should not be mistaken for "dissolved." In the context of
brewing, "saturation" shouldn't really be used.
Post by Ray Calverthydrometer. I mix it in until I get the sugar saturation I want.
Ray
...and by that, I think "concentration" is the appropriate term for
that statement vs. "saturation."
If we pride ourselves in using the proper terms like "must," or
"pitch," or "specific gravity," then it would stand to reason that the
proper terms elsewhere should apply, too.
Trid
-always a pedantic twit :)